Ashok :
Okay. We’ll commence with the question-answer session.
Question :
The first question is — For some people, success on the Path through meditation is with some kind of experience. However, Sant Ji would say love does not ask for a reward, for ‘love knows only to do the work’. Can you elaborate?
Babaji :
Our experiences are a matter of how we are doing our meditation, and with our love and affection for the Master. When we sit with love and affection for the Master, at the appropriate time, we get our experiences also. So, we do get experiences but, according to our karmas, we sometimes get these experiences early. Sometimes we get these experiences later. Masters have had a lot of struggle in Their meditations. If we see the life sketch of
Swami Ji Maharaj, then He meditated for eighteen years in a dark room. And He used to eat only a roti. So, He used to sit in that room with only the food of one roti. He used to sit, day and night, and do meditation. This, He did for eighteen years. We sit a little bit for meditation. When we sit and we get the benefit of that meditation, however, we do some other deeds, which then takes that away. If we want progress in our meditation and an experience in our meditation, then we should be very vigilant, in terms of what we are doing outside of our meditation, that we do not do something wrong, or we are not engaging in some deceit or such things.
Question :
The second question is — We have always been told by the Masters that the Negative Power, Kal, along with his agent, the mind, is the enemy, our only enemy. But, You say that the first Names of the Simran refer to the realms of Kal. If that's true, then how can we repeat those Names lovingly?
Babaji :
For the world, he is Kal but, for satsangis, he is also Dayal. So, we have to remember that we are going through his plane when we go upwards to God Almighty. These Names are the lords of all the planes, and we have to take their Names lovingly. And, if we do not have that love and affection, then we will not be able to manifest the Radiant Form of the Master within.
Question :
Third question is — How does one develop fearlessness? How did You come to be so fearless? (The stories of you meditating in the caves with the cheetahs and the bears and the snakes nearby. Stories of you dealing with the ghosts.) There is the story of Sant Ji meditating in His underground room with a large snake in the room with Him. And, there is the fear of facing the mind. Is the mind not known to be the most fearsome of all? How does the soldier, or the warrior, become fearless? There is the fear of Kal and his hells. Fear even seems to be there in our dealings with other people. So, how does one develop this quality of fearlessness?
Babaji :
If you sit for meditation for about two to two and a half hours daily then, gradually, you will overcome your fear. And, it is a fact that no animal will ever attack a person who is in meditation and who is contemplating his Master, because the God Almighty Whom we are praying to, He is also in those animals. And He will never get them to think along those lines.
Question :
The next question is — Considering that only souls in human life forms can be devoted, how can souls in lower life forms go up, evolve, into higher life forms?
Babaji :
The evolution is a process of going through the entire life cycle of that 8.4 million life forms. And that is how the souls come back, after a very long period, into a human life. The only other way is where the Masters shower Grace on a soul. Then, that soul comes into the form of a human life.
Question :
The next question is — When we repeat the Five Charged Words, is it okay to put them to a melody? Like a bhajan?
Babaji :
We should always keep our mind and focus on the Five Names, and the repetition of the Five Names. So, however you do it, the repetition should be continuous, with all the Five Names being taken, one after the other. Even if there is darkness, we should continue to do the Simran within. And, if one can contemplate the Form of the Master while doing Simran, that is very good.
Question :
The next question is — When we are doing or saying something, how can we know whether it is coming from the mind or from the soul?
Babaji :
The soul and the thought processes of the soul are different. Most of what we are thinking, and most of our suggestions that are coming, are all from the mind. If we are in a state of deep sorrow, and it has an impact on the mind, then there is also an impact on the soul. But, most of the suggestions and the thoughts that we have are all coming from the mind. The mind has two processes. It has sumati and kumati; that is, the positive suggestion and a negative suggestion. So, every time that we have a thought, if it is like a negative suggestion and we are trying to resolve to do that, then the positive thought of the mind also comes, and it tries to dissuade you from doing something like that. So, every time, it is the mind, which is playing both the roles of suggestions, and our thoughts are all being generated by the mind. Our rationalization is also being done by the mind. Sometimes, we make mistakes, thinking that the soul has given us a suggestion and we try to do it but, actually, it is the mind, which is giving the suggestions. When we sit for meditation also, and we get a thought process, or we decide to resolve something, and we feel that that has been a suggestion by the Master, then, that is also a mistake. It is the mind, which is suggesting to us. If the Master has to say something, then the Master will manifest and suggest that and tell us. We often make the mistake of thinking that the suggestion is coming from our Master within, but it is our mind, which is making our suggestion, and we get stuck in that thought process and resolve around that thought process. Till we manifest the Form of the Master within, the Radiant Form of the Master within, we are not going to be able to get absolved of the thought processes of the mind, and the deceit of the mind.
Question :
The next question is — Each day I can see Your free and Unconditional Love and Your acceptance of everybody, no matter who we are and what we are doing. I learn a lot from Your loving Presence. When you talk about loving affection for the Master, I have the feeling that is not the emotional love that you are talking about, the kind of love I have for my friends, my partner, for example. Can you tell us more about this quality of love?
Babaji :
The love and affection that we talk of with the Master can be felt and understood only when you manifest the Form of the Master within yourself. Until such time, we all love on a worldly basis. This love and affection is also acceptable and is okay, and that is the way we do it. But, this love and affection is more. It’s one of the attachments that we have in this world. So, it is this same thing that we also express here, and that is how we go about all our relationships. So, it is only when we go within that we are really able to understand that love and affection, when we manifest the Form of the Master within. Here, the Masters, when They see us, They do not look at our mind. They do not look at our karmas. They only look at our soul. Their love is for our soul. Their intention is to take the soul back, and therefore, They know that all your impurity, all of these differentiations that we are thinking, are all associated with our mind and with our karmas. And They don't look at that. And, therefore, They look at the soul and They look at everyone equally. The soul is an element of God Almighty. It is a daughter of God Almighty, and there is no impurity in the soul. And the Masters understand this as the element of God Almighty Himself. And They’re helping the soul to go back to God Almighty. It is the mind which is making the soul do all kinds of things, and it is the soul which is having all of those karmas built in. So, the soul continues to remain pure.
Question :
The next question is — When the deeds originate in the mind, the doer of the karmas is only the mind. Why has the soul to suffer?
Babaji :
This is the very essence. And, when Kal had asked for the souls to be part of his realm, at the level of Brahm, there was a knot tied between the mind and the soul. And, thereafter, it is the mind, which is dragging the soul and pursuing all kinds of karmas, and all kinds of deeds, which it is doing. And, because the soul is locked-in with the mind, it is tied up to the mind, it has to continue and go everywhere that the mind is going. And, to redeem those deeds that the mind has incurred, it has to go back in the cycle of life and death and into all those 8.4 million life forms, along with the mind. That is why it has to suffer along with the mind. The soul and the mind, they have been tied like this for tens of millions of lives, previous lives, and that is how they have been going through all the life forms together. The only way to untie this is to go back to Brahm, and there, it will be untied, and the soul will separate from the mind. However, when we leave our nine doors and come to the Tenth Door, and there, with the Grace of the Masters, the Sound Current is manifested, the mind realizes for itself that it is the mind and it is not the senses, as it is identifying itself with today. So, once that happens, and with the Sound Current being manifested, the mind then wants to go within, and then, it helps the soul to go up to Brahm. So, as soon as the Sound Current is manifested, the mind realizes that it is not the senses, it is not the sense organs, and it is an independent mind. And it gets connected with the Sound Current, and it helps the soul to go back within. When they go up to Brahm, beyond that, the mind cannot travel, because the mind is an element of Brahm. And, thereafter, the mind and the soul get untied. And, thereafter, the soul becomes naked and it goes up on its own. Thereafter, with the Grace of the Masters, the soul goes to Par Brahm, where it gets freed of all of its coverings and all of its karmas. And it has the brightness of twelve suns. There, the Master is also in the form of Light and Sound, and the soul also becomes the same form of Light and Sound. There is no longer any distinction between male and female there.
Question :
The next question is — We get the human body only for devotion. Why is it that when we get the human birth, 99% of the world’s population does not do devotion? Or, even have the possibility of doing devotion? How then, will these souls get the chance for devotion in their lifetimes in the best way?
Babaji :
When God Almighty had given the souls to Kal to take back to his realm, about 25% of the souls did not want to go. And about 75% of the souls were willing to go there. Now, it is only these 25% of the souls that are doing this devotion. It is when they refused to go, and at that time, that God Almighty promised them, “I have given my Word. You should go to the world of Kal. But, if you feel like coming back and you are unhappy there, then I will come, personally, to take you back.” So, it is part of these 25% of souls that are doing the devotion and are being taken back by the Masters. The rest of the souls, about 75% of them, they themselves wanted to come, and they will take a long time to go back to God Almighty.
Question :
Next question is — Can animals, or are animals, able to actually do devotion, think about the Creator and make karmas?
Babaji :
Sometimes it so happens that, in the human life, a person has done devotion but, for some reason, he has gone into the lower life forms. So, with such impressions, when the soul goes into those lower life forms, there is a little bit of devotion that is being done in those lower life forms also.
This reminds me of a story of Kak Bhusundi. This was when he was in the form of a crow, and he was giving a very enlightened speech to Garuda, the god Garuda. He is the vehicle of Lord Vishnu. So, KakBhusundi was giving a very enlightened talk about a lot of information about spirituality, etc., Garuda asked him, “You are in the form of a crow. How is it that you are so enlightened and you know so much about spirituality? And, when did you get the time to do all of this? And, how is it that you know so much?”So, he told Garuda his background. He said that, “In my previous birth, I was a human being and I was doing devotion. And I was a gurumukh and following the teachings of my Master. Now, my Master had told me that I should offer prayers to Shiva in the temple. And, after I offer my prayers, I should sit for meditation and do the jap of ‘OM’ for about one and a half hours. I used to do that, very regularly. And I used to meditate and I used to offer prayers also. But, it so happened that once, when I was offering prayers in the temple to Lord Shiva, my Master came and he stood behind me. And, at that time, I felt that, ‘Why should I bow down to my Master, when I am already doing and offering prayers to the god?’ So, when I was offering prayers to Shiva, at that time, my Master came and I felt that I need not bow to him and greet him, because I was already offering prayers to Lord Shiva. Now, after waiting for some time, when feeling a little disappointed, my Master left from the temple. Lord Shiva manifested, and he himself cursed me. He cursed me that, ‘Ignorant one! You should have prayed to your Master. You should have greeted him. And, when you were doing this offering to me, he was standing there and you didn't greet him, and you didn't bow down to him. So, I curse you that you will be born as a crow.’ When my Master heard it, he came running back inside the temple, and he pleaded with LordShiva that, ‘Please forgive him, he's ignorant and he didn't know this.’ But, Shiva said that, ‘No, I will curse him because, henceforth, no one should do such things. So, he will be born as a crow.’ So, therefore, I am now born as a crow but, though I am born as a crow, I still have the impressions of my previous birth.”
Therefore, if a human being, where he has done devotion but, for some reason, has gone in a lower life form, that impression carries with him in that lower life form also. And there, also, he does a little bit of devotion.
Question :
The next question is — Is it right or not if we give money or food to beggars on the street?
Babaji :
When you give such money or food to the beggars on the street, you should be careful, and you should evaluate before you do that, to make sure that he is not a person who will take that money and go and drink some alcohol, or indulge in some drugs or something like that, and misuse that money. If someone has a problem, and you're seeing that he's impaired physically and that, otherwise, he is unlikely to use that money for any wrong purpose, then you can help such people. But, you need to be a little careful and think about it. If you give some food, instead, to them to eat, that is okay. But, if you give money, then they should not end up misusing that money.
Question :
The next question — How does the Master keep, in his hand, the worldly life of the disciples?
Babaji :
These are things that the Masters do not discuss. So, this is a department of the Masters. And They do these things and They take care of these matters. But, this is not something that They discuss. So, when the karmas, the deeds, are being taken care of by the Lord of Judgment (this is for non-satsangis), then the Lord of Judgment also has a department. There are lots of other assistants to him who are taking care of the deeds of people. Similarly, the Master also takes care, and there are others who take care of such things.
Question :
And the next question is — Masters say that, when we do Simran, our deeds are redeemed. How, exactly, is that done? Is it like putting wood in the fire? Or, do the Masters observe and see what is the kind of Simran being done and, accordingly, reduce those deeds? So, how is this exactly happening?
Babaji :
When we do our Simran, the Masters and the Naam that They have given us, when we do the Simran of that, that has the power to redeem our deeds. The measure of such reduction in the deeds is that, when we do our Simran, we can observe that our love and affection for the Master, automatically, increases, and we start getting an inclination towards spirituality. We start doing more of this and we start liking it more. And, instead, when we are not doing Simran, then the deeds build up, and we start getting pulled towards the world. So, you can directly see the impact and the measure of the reduction of karmas.
Question :
The next question is — Why did Sant Ajaib Singh Ji leave us when He did, when all preparations were made for His tour to the West?
Babaji :
The Masters live in the Will of Their Masters. And They often pray that They should be relieved from here and that They should go back to Their Masters. So, sometimes it so happens that, the Masters tell Them to come back. And then, if there is some unfinished work, that continues to remain unfinished, and They leave.
Question :
The next question is — Do the disciples, who are initiated near the end of the Master’s mission, have less background or worse karma than those who are able to enjoy many more years of physical Darshan?
Babaji :
The Masters, wherever They give initiation, They are always taking care of Their disciples, whether They are in the physical form, or They leave Their body and, at a higher level, They are taking care. So, everyone is being taken care of, equally, by the Master, irrespective of when that person would've got his initiation. Of course, people who have got initiation early in the lifespan of the Master, and they get more Darshan of the Master, they get the benefit of that. But, because of their deeds, or they are not listening and they are not following the instructions, they are building up their karmas. And, as a result, that process continues. Had they listened to the Master and they’d done more devotion then, definitely, they would've got a deeper impact of that longer period that they had with the Masters. So, even if a Master initiates today, and He leaves His body tomorrow, His initiate is as much taken care of as a person who has got several years, who has been initiated, and whose Master is there for him in physical form. So, Masters sit in Brahm after They leave Their body, and They are looking after and taking care of everybody. The origination into this world is from Brahm for all the souls, and the Masters have also tied them there. They are all connected there with the Masters. That is how the Master is looking after all of them from there. Therefore, whichever Master has given us our initiation, we should continue to have love and affection for that Master. And we should continue to do our contemplation of His Form within when we are doing our meditation.
Question :
The next question is — Do the disciples, who are initiated near the end of the Master’s mission, have less background or worse karma than those who are able to enjoy many more years of physical Darshan?
Babaji :
The Masters, wherever They give initiation, They are always taking care of Their disciples, whether They are in the physical form, or They leave Their body and, at a higher level, They are taking care. So, everyone is being taken care of, equally, by the Master, irrespective of when that person would've got his initiation. Of course, people who have got initiation early in the lifespan of the Master, and they get more Darshan of the Master, they get the benefit of that. But, because of their deeds, or they are not listening and they are not following the instructions, they are building up their karmas. And, as a result, that process continues. Had they listened to the Master and they’d done more devotion then, definitely, they would've got a deeper impact of that longer period that they had with the Masters. So, even if a Master initiates today, and He leaves His body tomorrow, His initiate is as much taken care of as a person who has got several years, who has been initiated, and whose Master is there for him in physical form. So, Masters sit in Brahm after They leave Their body, and They are looking after and taking care of everybody. The origination into this world is from Brahm for all the souls, and the Masters have also tied them there. They are all connected there with the Masters. That is how the Master is looking after all of them from there. Therefore, whichever Master has given us our initiation, we should continue to have love and affection for that Master. And we should continue to do our contemplation of His Form within when we are doing our meditation.